Hey Tom -
I was listening to some ZBC archives today and noticed the new ark player and followed the link to this forum. Iâm a programmer and happy to contribute how ever I can. See my forum profile for github link.
@newtnik Hi Jon, Thanks for the offer. Can we try to set up a call so I can explain where things are and we can discuss what we could do together? My email is tom@spinitron.com
My iPhone 6s listening to kmuz archive on safari 5:50pm pacific time March 9.
The player stops playing on dark screen or if I leave spinitron pages to any other page or app.
This is not useful if it wonât play on dark screen!! Any tips on that? My other players work fine.
This is what I wanted to say tooâŠ
Thereâs a tune called Beyond the Tagus River that was played on Vetaâs program Bluegrass and Beyond where the art cover is not showned, Andre Dal is misspelled, itâs not possible to listen to the tune when you clik on it and doesnât go to apple or spotify or any other when you click on the box. Why?
Hi Marc, thanks for joining the forum.
Itâs a known problem. And we understand how big a drawback it is.
Let me give a rundown on where we are, how we got here and what might happen next.
Radio Free America (RFA) was providing a free two week archive that lots of Spinitron stations were using. We thought it was a pretty good service for $0 and easy for stations using Spinitron to try so we often mentioned it to stations. But it is in the nature of that kind of business that if they cease operations they will do so without warning and that worried us. We would feel bad if stations we had pointed their way were left hanging overnight.
When that happened we quickly moved to fill the gap. I figured we could quickly set up a system that connects to stationâs webcast streams, automatically writes the digital audio data in the streams to audio files, stores those in the cloud and to provide a web-based archive player that uses those files to play back from an arbitrary point in the last two weeks.
And I was right, we got that up and running quickly. But we soon found that on mobile the web player would continue running only if the mobile deviceâs screen stays on and the browser tab itâs in stays in the foreground. This is, as you pointed out, a severe limitation and we started to work on fixing it as though it were a bug. But it eventually became clear that fixing this bug would require redesigning the whole system using different web-audio technology. That was going to take considerable time, way more than we had planned and more than stations who had lost RFA should have to wait. So we decided to offer what we had commercially at a low price with a clear notice about the limitation on mobile.
We were unable to quickly fix the mobile issue is because of a malign combination of legal and technical constraints. As a service provider we have to make it unfeasible for a user to download a copy of the stationâs audio without resorting to obvious hacking and violation of the terms of service. So we segmented the audio into 5 minute chunks, each stored in one file. The audio player downloads these files on the fly and plays them back to back. To download, say, an hour of programming, a user would have to hack the system to download twelve such chunks and then stitch them together to have an hour of seamless audio.
And this is where the problem on mobile arises. The archive web player uses JavaScript running in a web browser to download the chunks and start playing them at the right time. When a browser tab goes into the background, or the user switches to a different app, or the screen turns off, the browser stops running the playerâs JavaScript. Thereâs nothing we can do to prevent that.
I can see two ways out of this. One is to use long audio files, so long, maybe an hour or more, that the user doesnât mind reopening the browser tab to restart the archive playback when it stops. Weâre not prepared to do this for legal reasons. A station could reasonably operate such a service for themselves since I believe their liability would be acceptable. But itâs different for a commercial service provider like Spinitron. Litigation for us would likely be the end for Spinitron and our livelihood.
The other is to use a streaming video protocol such as DASH or HLS. Iâve done enough experiments with HLS to be fairly confident that it can be made to work. I can specify how such a system can work but I havenât had time to build it.
1 Like
Hi Andre, thanks for asking your question on the forum.
I suspect the problem is what you said: Andre Dal is misspelled. That sort of data entry error can prevent Spinitron and the external services we connect to (Apple Music, Amazon, âŠ) from identifying the recording. That prevents us from finding the cover art, Apple from providing the 30 second preview, etc.
We have put more effort into features to avoid/correct this kind of data-entry error than into any of Spinitronâs other features. Auto-completion, suggestions, Did-you-mean? search among other other tools and nudges. But if, after all that, Spinitron still cannot connect a spin to a recording in a trusted reference database, we do not force a correction on the DJ.
I suggest you ask the DJ that played the song to make the correction. Iâm happy to help or even do it myself but I need the DJâs request.
So youâre a bluegrass banjo player in Portugal, eh? How cool is that! Iâm enjoying this recording and video for the second time now. Itâs lovely!
Tom, thank you so much for your kind words. I decided to do an instrumental bluegrass album because first, bluegrass is almost non-existent here in Portugal and I wanted to have something recorded so I could show people here what is bluegrass music and second, I have focal hand dystonia and my ability to play the banjo is slowly decreasing and I really wanted to record something before it was too late. I invited 15 musicians from 10 different countries. A real global bluegrass album. I asked the DJ to correct the name and she did. Everything is working except the box to amazon and spotify. Is there a way to check that?
The reason why the Amazon and Spotify buttons arenât working isnât obvious. I can treat that as a bug and investigate later.
Iâll send delay rays across the Atlantic aimed at whatever afflicts those hands. Best I can think of and worth a try ? : )
By coincidence, I acquired an acoustic guitar just last week with the aim of learning some bluegrass. Iâve played electric for 40 years but most of my skills are useful only in a band. I want to be able to play unaccompanied in social situations.
Tom, please do. Itâs the first time I have a tune on spinitron and it would be great if the boxes all worked.
Hahaha. Yeah, I need some of that.
Bluegrass music works in every situation. I love it.
1 Like
I think the problem is that our primary database that includes ISRC doesnât have your release yet. The latest version available is April 2. We used to get updates nearly every day before the plague but no updates for one or two weeks is typical now. When did your release first appear in services like Spotify, Apple and Amazon?
While Iâd like to have those buttons working for you, TBH, they wonât make much difference to your exposure to audiences. If you are doing your own promotional work then Spinitron can be a great resource for you to get your music in the hands of music directors and individual DJs and therefore to get them playing it to their listeners. Given the unique and exotic hook of Bluegrass from Portugal (or some such) I think this might be very effective. Let me know if youâd like me to explain how it might work.
I think itâs that. The track was released on April 12, so much later than April 2.
About the other aspect you mentioned, I would really like to know more about how it works.
Thanks, Andre.
Hi André, the answer turned into a standalone guide: Using Spinitron in promotional work. Feel free to ask questions or add comments to that thread.
On Sunday afternoon May 16, listening to playback of KCSMâs May 15âs 6pm Weekend Jazz Oasis worked well with decent fidelity for about 1/2 hour; then became distorted briefly before cutting out completely. I then reset the player for the 7pm segment, and the same thing happened. Ditto for the 8pm segment. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Spot checked at all times noted for at least two minutes with no issues (30 and 45 minutes in) using ARK. I will listen to our logger later to hear outbound stream. First time for this kind of complaint received.
KCSM
Hi @PeterYedidia, thanks for joining the forum.
Iâm testing KCSMâs May 15âs 6pm and itâs playing now through minute 46 no problems. The Django recording at 6:30 was pretty scratchy but I donât think thatâs a problem with playback.
- At what point did playback stop? A little over 30 minutes?
- When you say that playing from 7pm and 8pm led to the same thing, do you mean that for all 3 attempts you could listen for 30 mins, then distortion, then playback stops?
- What browser and version do you use?
- What kind of computer do you use?
- Whatâs itâs operating system version?
Iâm testing KCSMâs May 15âs 6pm and itâs playing now through minute 46 no problems. The Django recording at 6:30 was pretty scratchy but I donât think thatâs a problem with playback.
- At what point did playback stop? A little over 30 minutes?
Thinking back carefully on it, for the first session, starting at 6pm, there was distortion on Django, after which I think Michael reviewed the set and the distortion continued. Playback didnât stop, I refreshed the player and set it to play back the 7pm segment. (See below.)
- When you say that playing from 7pm and 8pm led to the same thing, do you mean that for all 3 attempts you could listen for 30 mins, then distortion, then playback stops?
The 7pm session played back well for 20-30 min, then playback stopped. I then set the player to the 8pm session, which played for 10-15 min and then stopped.
- What browser and version do you use?
I was using an Amazon Fire HD8 tablet with the built-in Silk browser, which is adapted from the open source version of Chrome.
Thanks, good info.
Was the Fire plugged into a power source and set to not turn off or lock its screen after a time?
Yes and yes. I use the tablet daily, exclusively to connect various players via a cable to decent speakers. Itâs reasonably good at streaming near CD quality sound when connected this way.
Have you used it successfully in the past with the KCSM archive? If so then it might be worth turning the device off and on again.
Iâll try myself later on our Kindle Fire.
Is Silk the only browser you have on it? I have Firefox but I think I had to go through a complicated unofficial procedure to get Google Play Store installed first.